Hi,,

I am looking to switch from a tow dolly to towing all four down...does anyone have a spare tow bar for sale?

Regards,
Jerry and Kay Hudson
2002 Contessa

Jerry...If you're going from a dolly to a tow bar, your toad must be an automatic.  Do you know if your toad is towable four wheels down?  Some automatic trannies can't be towed.  Some can be towed if they are altered with an oil pump or a disconnect mechanism put on.  You will also need to get a base plate that matches your tow car.  You may have already thought of these items previously but since you didn't mention them I thought I'd ask.  If you are planning on being in the northwest this summer or in Georgia next spring Roadmaster will be at the FMCA conventions and may have some reconditioned tow-bars available.
I tried to locate your name in the BAC directory but never came across Kay's name.  When you had written you lived in southern LA it had to be you.
Mandy

we are currently towing a Toyota Avalon on a dolly but I looking to purchase a Saturn Vue or something similiar that can be towed all four down with no drive train modifications...We are just starting to do our searching and see what is best for us.

thanks

Because Toyota and Honda won't stand behind towing their newer rigs, we steered elsewhere.  Both the FMC magazine and Motorhome magazine have annual issues that include tow vehicle guides, so be sure you check that out.  

We like Fords, and tow an Explorer.  In searching for a newer car, we discovered that though most Chevys are towable, the Fords were simpler to setup for each tow.  If we were to get a new car, and didn't mind the smaller size, the Escape Hybrid would be our choice.  The Ford Flex, picking roominess over mileage, might also be worth your checking into.

Hey Joel
We have a Saturn sl-2 and we are looking for something more comfortable.  Could you tell me about your Explorer?  2 / 4 door, Auto w/auto 4x4 or manual with one touch 4x4 etc.?
What about weight and light connections.  What do you use for the dingy brakes?
Most important is what year is it?
I need these answeres for a comparison.  I cant get the same answeres twice on what can be towed and wich years and is so tow distances and max speeds.
We have the 3126 CAT 300 or 330 hp (dont know which).  We tow the Saturn pretty well but an explorer is twice the weight.
What hp is your C9?
Thanks
Keith

Quoted from Keith Moffett

Hey Joel
We have a Saturn sl-2 and we are looking for something more comfortable.  Could you tell me about your Explorer?  2 / 4 door, Auto w/auto 4x4 or manual with one touch 4x4 etc.?
What about weight and light connections.  What do you use for the dingy brakes?
Most important is what year is it?
I need these answeres for a comparison.  I cant get the same answeres twice on what can be towed and wich years and is so tow distances and max speeds.
We have the 3126 CAT 300 or 330 hp (dont know which).  We tow the Saturn pretty well but an explorer is twice the weight.
What hp is your C9?
Thanks
Keith

Keith-
Our toad is a 1997 Explorer 4 door Limited, automatic transmission with switchable electronic low or high 4 wheel drive.  Because we are explorers and I flyfish, "Pearl", as we call her due to the "pearlescent white" paint, is ideal for us.  Though we also have a '97 F-150 Lariat pickup that actually rides better than Pearl, due to its specific 4X4 setup it isn't towable without significant modifications and it rarely gets driven since I retired.  It cost us only $100 to have Robberson's, the Bend Ford dealer, install a "Neutral Tow Kit" that made Pearl towable.  Footnotes in dinghy towing guides will allude to that re. some Ford vehicles.

The Explorer is our go-to rig for nearly everything;  it is easier to park and maneuver, easier for the Buscuit Burner to get in and out of, partly due to its automatic air suspension that lowers for ingress/egress but lifts up to 4 inches depending on drive mode selected (2WD up to 4WD High) - a feature I'm not sure is any longer available, gets us to the store and doctors, etc., in snowy/icey weather,  has gotten us around when the coach became unavoidably grounded in a snowbound camp, and has taken us through some pretty rough back country to remote fishing spots I have fond memories of.

Pearl weighs about 4300 lbs, and we hardly know she's back there when towing her, esp. given our Monty Rae is only 37ft with a 400HP CAT., and has an enormous GCWR relative to longer coaches.  The only hassle I've had is Pearl's wheel alignment needs a close watch;  they say Explorers that are towed can easily get out of whack, but techs who've examined ours don't think towing caused the problem.  Probably just from the off-roading we've done.  I did have Roadmaster in Vancouver (WA) redo some things in our hitch setup to create a more level arrangement with the towbar just in case, though - our Monterey sits a might low in the back which left Pearl actually a couple inches higher.

I'm not up on the configuation of your Saturn, but if it's not an SUV, you might not like the firm ride of an Explorer.  That said, Pearl's unusual air ride suspension is nicer than most, and newer Explorers have improved suspensions over 13 years ago.  Only a test ride will tell you.  If we were to replace Pearl, we'd probably go with a Ford Flex, though I'd like to wait for a hybrid version for better fuel numbers.  If we could tolerate the smaller size (I carry a disassembled but inflated pontoon boat in the back, with fully rigged flyrods), I'd otherwise choose an Escape Hybrid Limited.  We've heard good stories about them from other motorhomers;  Ford had a brief towability retraction when they first came out due to the regenerative braking system, but quickly resolved the problem and reinstated the Escape Hybrid as towable.

Rated tow speed information should be available in the owners manual for any vehicle you are interested in, if not via Family Motor Coaching Magazine's archives;  January issues have the towing guides.  I think our Explorer was rated 65mph, which I rarely exceed anyway.  New Escapes are 75 mph rated, and new Explorers and Flex's are either 65 mph or unlimited.  If you don't care about 4X4, I'd consider the Chevy Malibu, one of the most reliable and highly touted American rigs out there.  Otherwise the Flex is, I believe, heavier than an Explorer, so if roominess isn't an issue, I'd strongly recommend you go test drive an Escape Hybrid to see if it suits you - the specific CAT engine you have may deal with it best, and it gets great mileage for an SUV.  Some cars over the years have required one to stop every few hundred miles and circulate fluid through their trannys, and some need a fuse pulled or something;  we've never had to do anything like that with either our Explorer nor the old 1982 Toyota SR5 4X4 we used to tow behind our old motorhome.

For braking we use Roadmaster's Brakemaster 9100.  Though it is best installed by pros and ain't cheap, it is easy to emplace and remove for towing, and is far easier to store than the bulky "box" style systems.  Plus tests show it to be one of the most fully proportional and quick-to-respond braking systems available, since it ties directly to your coach air system.  Frankly, I like it a lot.  And living close to Roadmaster headquarters, I've had super assistance and input for the towing issues I've had;  mostly problems were from improper original installation at other facilities, and Roadmaster re-engineered or corrected them at little or no charge in spite of several hours work.  The braking system itself has never had a problem;  just the original towbar setup, which Roadmaster fixed.  Your coach may, like a lot of Monaco rigs, be prewired for the Unified Tow Brake, so that also is an option for you.

I'm sure other BAC members will chime in with their toad recommendations, but you asked specific questions of me, and I hope I've answered most of them.  When they were prepping Monty Rae for delivery, BCS put us up in our old coach at Crown Villa park in Bend.  We hadn't configured Pearl for towing yet.  Two California diesels pulled in across from us, towing Chev and GMC SUVs, so after they'd setup camp I wandered over and asked them about towing their General Motors rigs.  They really liked them, and one of them offered to demonstrate the setup and breakdown for towing.  Quite frankly, I didn't comment as such to him, but I found it too involved and cumbersome compared to what the Ford Dealers had described re. their neutral tow kit setup.  That's one of many reasons we stuck with Ford.  

-Joel

I didn't expect Joel to write a novel on  toads and auxiliary brakes but did a good job doing it.  If you're not in too much of a hurry you might wait until you get to Redmond and attend the towing "Round Table" discussion by the experts (dealers of the braking systems) and gain their knowledge.  When I put an auxiliary system on my Honda Civic almost 10 years ago I checked all of them.  At that time there weren't too many makers on the  market but did end up very impressed with the M & G system that links up to the master cylinder of the toad.  I have straight air on the coach so I didn't have to have the extra air tank installed.  Those who have air over hydraulic would need to install the extra air tank to support the M & G.  At that time I installed the system I didn't like the boxes that one has to take in and out of the toad.  I also didn't like the idea of having to drill holes in the floor board to anchor the the other systems out there.  With my system I never have to worry about putting those in and out systems in properly.  I've read and heard too many horror stories about those box malfunctions and losing all the brakes on the toad.  Just another opinion.
Mandy

I agree with Mandy on the idea of learning all that you can about your options before purchasing an auxiliary braking system for your toad.

I have been using an M & G system for seven years, and could not be happier with the system. The hookup or disconnect time is 2 or 3 seconds and it is totally proportional braking, but it is not for everyone. So educate yourself and get the best system for you and the toad that you choose.

Gerald  

We tried a Box Brake from Road Master and was very dissatisfied with installing and its operation (tried two). The operation of the "Brake Buddy" type of systemcan ruin yoru toad's brake system if out of adjustment. It depended on the seat adjustment and storage was a pain besides hooking it to the brake pedal.

We changed to a Brakemaster from Road Master that operates only when the motorhome brakes are used and is porpotional as it uses the same air as the MH brakes. The install is hooking to the pedal and a bracket on the floor and the air line and it is light and small.

My son went one better and uses one that I think is called a "Stay and Play" and all you do is flip a switch and requires the motorhome brake lights activate before it works.

We did not see a lot of difference in cost but the installs vary quiet a bit. Like Gerald said "do a lot of homework" before choosing the system right for you.

Consider calling REMCO Tow Products in Omaha, they can give you a lot of options to tow with their lube pumps. You might be able to keep the vehicle you have.
I tow a SUV on four with a Remco Tow package.
I love the Blue Ox tow bar system. When I am off the coach, nothing shows on the SUV that it's a tow vehicle.

[urlhttp://www.remcotowing.com/][/url] is who we call before the purchase of a toad to see what is necessary. They know if it tracks properly and what modification is necessary. We have used the drive shaft disconnect several vehicles. First one on a 1991 and 1997 Ford Explorer and now on a Dodge Durango. We have several hundred thousand miles with no problems.

Two Hints: If you get the drive shaft disconnect insist they balance the drive shaft before it leaves their factory as very few drive shaft service places will do it properly. You need to clean the gear with WD40 and Lube with a silicon lubricant every few months (more if a lot of dirty towing). They also have a snap pin that holds the disconnect cable to the yoke at the rear end (either zip tie it or replace with a bolt and lock nut.

I tow an Escalade on all four with the Remco Tow package and the Blue Ox.
What a great combination. When I disconnect the Blue Ox from my vehicle, you can't tell it's a tow vehicle.
One pin disconnects the Blue Ox from the coach hitch and stows in the basement storage.

The folks at Remco in Omaha are very friendly and helpful. They want you to be happy with their product.
Just make sure the folks that are doing the install know what they are doing.

I've towed with a dolly and a trailer and had to find space to store them, it sure is nice not to have to worry about that.

Rob

I have a budget of about 5000 lb. for towing.  Our Saturn is about half that and a ford explorer would max it out.  I think I will wait for info. at the round table durring the Redmond rally.
By the way, our used coach has the CAT 3126 but that can be 300 or 330 hp and I have no info on which.  Does someone know how to tell?
Thanks
Keith

Think the 1998 was 330 HP but rated the same torque as the 300 HP.  

CAT RV Hotline 1-877- 777 - 3126 call with your engine SN and build number and they can tell you for sure or any CAT service center can access the information.

thanks for all of the repilies...We ar going to look at a Saturn Vue today and see what happens.. thanks Roger for sending the info. I will be in touch with you. Who knows I might be selling a tow dolly in the next few weeks.

Thanks,
Jerry