What is going to be the best bang for my buck when I buy a 50 amp surge protector for the coach. I know we can hard wire or go with a portable unit.  I know we can spend anywhere from $100 to $500. But do I need to spend $500 to be protected? I would appreciate your views and experience with these.
Barb

Barb,

Where did you find a surge protector for $100?  I want one.

The units for ~$500 are a lot more than simple surge suppressors.  They monitor line voltage and watch for serious conditions like open neutrals.  They have the ability to cut off the current flow when dangerous situations are detected.

As for hard wire vs portable, we had a portable when we had our Class C.  It was just another thing to remember to hookup each time and I wasn't trusting enough to use it without securing a cable to it to prevent theft.  We have a hardwired one now and it is far simpler.

http://www.amazon.com/Progress.....327782119&sr=8-1

This is a simple 50 amp surge protector.

Quoted from barbhalsell

http://www.amazon.com/Progress.....327782119&sr=8-1

This is a simple 50 amp surge protector.

This is nothing more than a surge suppressor.  IMHO, this is not a good investment since it doesn't protect you against some of the most common CG electrical problems.

I know I need more protection than what that would provide which is why I am asking what kinds other people have bought. And are they happy with the purchase?

We have this one: http://www.trci.net/products/surge-guard/hardwires-portables/50a-hardwire.  I don't know how to judge whether it works or not, since if it works you probably won't know it.  All I can say is that it hasn't failed us, yet.

The portable Progressive WILL protect from campground improper wiring, it lets you know when you plug it in with LED warning lights. It is also a surge protector. It will NOT shut down for under voltage. I never leave anything running (electricly) when I'm going to be away from the MH so I don't worry about undervoltage. I've had my portable one now for 3 years and it has saved me twice from miss-wired power posts. Marty

I installed the Progressive EMS hard wired system about 2 years ago and it has saved me from low  campground voltage at least one time that I know of.  The campground voltage dropped below the 104V setpoint and the unit shut the power off. We were in the RV at the time and I went to check why the power went off and found that one leg of the power at the pedestal had dropped to 90 Volts! It is hard to say what would have happened if the EMS was not there to protect us but we are glad it did its job.  

We travel in the NE often and we often find campgrounds where the voltage at the pedestal is marginal with not much occupancy at the CG early in the day when we usually stop for the day.  As the CG fills up the voltage will only drop as more rigs plug into the power pedestals.  

We are very happy with the Progressive EMS system and now are not afraid to leave the RV with stuff like the AC's running, knowing the EMS will do its job and shut down with low or high voltage and then turn the system back on if/when the power returns to the proper voltage.

Check out their web site http://WWW.progressiveindustries.net

I agree with Paul.  I use the progressive EMS unit (EMS-HW50C).  It runs about $425 and comes with a remote that allows you to monitor individual line voltage, amp draw by leg and error codes remotely.  The same unit without the remote, if memory serves me correct is about $375.  This is a hardwired system.  They also sell a "portable" EMS.  I started out with a portable TRC unit that I purchased at Camping World that failed in less then two years .  The TRC cost about $250 and didn't provide as mutch protection as the Progressive Industries EMS.  The later is not only provides surge protection but also reverse polarity, open neutral, open ground, frequency issues, high/low voltage and 240 volt protection.  You can also determine cause of problems by reviewing the error codes available on the unit itself or the remote if equipped.  I am very happy with this unit and would not hesitate to recommend it.

Tim Westman

Thank you for your input on this question. This is why this forum is so valuable. When I am surfing on other forum sites and see a question on anything Beaver, I steer the poster to BAC. Beaver questions answered by Beaver owners. I know of at least one that has joined because of this.
Barb

One air conditioner went out on our old Pace Arrow a couple decades ago.  The symptoms indicated it probably burned out from low campground voltage someplace we'd been.  As the guys indicate above, pedestal voltage can vary more than people think. Owners new to the game and unfamiliar with the following basic concept are most vulnerable:  in midsummer when the heat is on and the campgrounds are full, the voltage available to any one campsite is most likely going to be less than optimum.  The more people that turn on their air conditioners, the worse the situation gets.  You can park your lawn chair next to the pedestal and check the voltage every 10 minutes, or run out and check it everytime someone new rolls into the park and hooks up.  Or you can have protection already in place monitoring things 24/7.

When an electric motor first starts up it requires far more current to get up to speed than it does after it's fully running;  much like a car requiring more fuel to get its weight rolling off the stopline than after it's up to road speed.  The air conditioner compressor motor especially fits that bill.  If it only has 90 volts to work with rather than the 110-120 volts it's designed for, the motor has to work much harder to "get off the line" and up to speed.  At 90 volts it may never get up to speed, but rather overheat trying to.  This is the number 1 cause of AC failures.  And its likely to happen to you if you don't have protection in place.  Even then, nothing's perfect - stuff can happen.

Since we've owned our Monterey, we've had several instances where our power went out.  It ultimately turns out it was our built-in power protection shutting everything down.  At least once in Dillon, MT, it was in a relatively nice, new RV park... and our air conditioners weren't on.  It was just a bad campground circuit, going out at midnight, and requiring the c.g. owner to get out of bed and reset.  Even parked by the side of our house one day, in storage with nothing particular on electrically, I kept hearing a clicking on the roof.  Turned out it was the automatic satellite dish going on and off;  and we've never even used it.  I couldn't get it to stop, so I knew something was haywire electrically.  Feeling the 15 amp minimal cord going to the coach from the house, it was warm.  For 27 years I've used 15 amp cords to my RVs in storage, and it's been fine as long as you understand their extremely minimal function.  I could hear the power unit in the cord reel bay snapping on and off too.  Immediately unplugging, I checked the cords and found the small cord and 15/30amp adapter had burn marks.  Apparently the adapter was bad.  The power protection was trying to do its job in response, and it worked, but there still was risk of fire at the adapter laying on the gravel next to the coach.  I bought a 30 amp extension cord ($$) to resolve the issue and all is well.  

The point is that you never know, so it's best to be protected not just from surges, but from the more likely bad circuit or low voltage situation.  Unless you'd rather pay the $500+ for a new air conditioner instead of new built-in whole-coach power protection.

Joel

Darn good point Joel!

Joel,

My replacement HVAC unit was $1,300!  I've been trying to detrrmine the most effective power management system.  Just another must do task.

http://www.trci.net/products/surge-guard We hard wired one of the 50 Amp Surge Guard Units about 8 years ago and it has saved us from low power and improperly wired sites many times. Includes state parks , and some well maintained parks like  Ft Wilderness (loose neutral) and some overloaded places like the ORA on I75 just South of the FL/GA line with 10 "50" amp sites on a 70 amp sub panal.

Good discussion - I never really thought about this all that much. Now I am. I hate to spend $ on a portable right now before leaving on a trip, but don't have time to get a hard wired one installed - maybe look into getting it installed while away.  

Where do you install the hard wire units? I'm certainly not going to do the install, but curious where it goes - after the power cord reel but before the other electrical "stuff"?

Jeff

Quoted from Jeff Watt

Where do you install the hard wire units? I'm certainly not going to do the install, but curious where it goes - after the power cord reel but before the other electrical "stuff"?

Our hardwired unit is in the basement near the transfer switch.  The cable coming from the power reel goes to the suppressor and then to the transfer switch.  We had to move the switch a bit to make room for all of it.

It has to be after the cord reel but can be anywhere else.

I saw a picture of one after a big power surge and it was melted and blackened. So I would reccomend in be a hopefully hard to ignite something area.

My son got a portable on to plug into power pedestal. He unplugs it first and puts it up before rolling up his power cord so he does not forget it.

Quoted from Richard And Babs Ames

I saw a picture of pne after a big power surge and it was melted and blackened. So I would reccomend in a hopefully harad to ignite something area.

I'm not denying that could happen but it had to have been an extreme case like a lightning strike.  Normally you don't even know that a surge suppressor has done anything at all.  Obviously, if it does something like cut the power off because the voltage is low, you'll know if you are around, but if it operates as a surge suppressor you'll never even know that it has prevented a voltage spike from entering your circuitry.

Personally, I think the picture you are referring to is manufacturer's "hype"--"you better get one of these before this happens to you" sort of stuff.  I wouldn't let the picture dictate where I put the device.

I just looked at my Contessa and will be mounting it next to the transfer switch in one of the storage bays.

I intent on installing it on the output of the transfer switch so it's providing protection for both commercial and generator power.  Does anyone see a reason not to install it after the transfer switch?

It looks like PPL hss the best price.  As anyone found a less expensive source?

Amazon $272.88 Surge Guard 34560 hardwired.

I hard wired a 50 amp Surge Guard in my 1998 Patriot.  I moved it into this coach in 2003.  I think it works, because there have been no electrical problems in the coach.  The initial coast is worth the peace of mind and expense of repairing circuit boards.  The hard wired model is safe and dry compared to the portable.

Larry

Barb and Jack,

Thanks.  On order and as an Amazon Prime member, shipping is free.

Gil

Gil and Jeff, are you positive you don't already have one on your coach?  Many came from the factory already to go, like our Monterey.

Gil, you are correct.  I haven't priced a new AC for awhile.  They're a lot more than $500+ nowdays.

Joel

Joel,

I've crawled through most nooks and crannies and have looked at the wiring diagrams and can't find one in my '08 Contessa.  It may be hidden somewhere, but I don't think so.

Joel,

I believe you are correct. I was pretty sure there was a "surge" protector in the MH, but wasn't sure if it monitored voltage,etc. So after banging my head a couple of times today, I found the unit and iit is in back of the bay compartment - a Surge Guard by TRC.

Reading the literature more closely, it does protect against high (>132v) and low (<102V); in either case it disconnects the service. Also monitors faulty wiring, reverse polarity and open neutral.

Lesson to me: READ THE MANUAL MORE THOROUGHLY - DON"T JUST SKIM THROUGH IT!

I have been using a TRC Surge Guard that is hardwired into my coach for over 10 years. It has paid for it's self many times, because it has saved me from faulty campground wiring several times.

I am now on my second coach with the same Surge Guard because the last time that I traded coaches, I transferred the Surge Guard to the new coach. I would not be without a surge protector that also monitors voltage and wiring issues, because if you have not had one of the problems yet, you will if you travel enough.

Gerald  

OK, you folks have convinced me. I'm going with the EMS-HW50C by progressive because of the remote read out feature.

Gil I installed a surge protector in my 08 contesst and I could not find one installed from the factory.  About a week ago the unit shut down the power to the coach and had the park check it and found #2 line open sure glad i had a surge protector.  Wayne

I just installed the TRC device on the output of the transfer switch.  It was easy!  Just an hour labor and less than $20 in wire and parts.

Im only mentioning this as an alternative approach for placement of the surge protector. When we had problems with the power transfer relay in June I wired in a TRC surge protector on the shore power side of the 50A power transfer relay rather than the output.

Keith, are you saying your transfer switch problems were a result of not having the surge and voltage protector on the input to the transfer switch?  It is true that my placement doesn't protect the the one electronic board in the transfer switch and your placement does.  Your placement doesn't protect the coach if there's a power problem with the generator.  FWIW, your placement is what TRC recommends.  I'm not sure if that recommendation is due to the fact that's the only place you can install their shore power plug-in version or that there's little liklihood that the generator can put out bad power.

You do bring up a decision the owner has to make on where, electrically, to install the surge and power protector.  Either placement protects the coaches systems from shore power problems.

Gil

The factory installed our Monterey's Surge Guard on the back wall of the cord reel compartment, so the cord runs immediately through the device before anything else.

Joel

Gil,
Low voltage at the pedistal can trigger failure in the power transfer circuitry.  if the voltage level drops far enough the contactor points will “chatter” and sustained contact chattering can and will cause damage.
Low voltage can be caused by low voltage conditions like an RV park with inadequate wiring or  crowded camper conditions where everyone’s electricity suffers (brownout). Low voltage may also be triggered by using an extension cord which is too long and too small for the load.
A spike in voltage can also trigger a failure in the time delay circuitry.

The problems we encountered in June were, i beleive, triggered by a low voltage  and a chatter condition in an older RV park.

Keith, gotcha.  I need to look at the specs/features of the transfer switch.  I'm not aware of a timer on mine, but that seems reasonable.  Although relay chatter will lead to premature contact failure, my placement of the surge/voltage protection device should guarantee that there's no current load on a chattering relay.

I'd like to better understand the likilhood of generator related power problems that this device could protect against.  I'm always reminded of an Air Force comm site I ran in Turkey when we had a run away generator that raised the voltage to disasterous levels.

Gil,
I do not seen any likely hood of transfer switch failure from low voltage because the TRC Surge Guard will disconnect the power for 2 minutes and 15 seconds at any time there is low voltage and will not reconnect until voltage returns, so there will be no current flow through the transfer switch.

If you are in a park were the voltage is below 102V (the TRC disconnect point), you need to disconnect from shore power and move or run on your generator.

The location that you chose for your Surge Guard is the same one that I was going to use until I decided that I did not want to wait the extra 2 plus minutes for power every time that I started the generator. If the extra wait for generator power does not bother you, I see nothing wrong with your installation.

Although a generator related power problem is a possible, it is very rare. I think that your coach has the variable speed 8KW Onan, so overvoltage from an over-speed condition is not a concern since the generator produces DC current and uses an inverter to produce 120V AC. On the other hand the 10KW and 12.5KW units are constant speed units that produce 120V AC current with the generator and over-speed is a real problem if it happens.

Gerald    

Gerald, I do have the 10KW Onan generator.  It's good to know the differences between the 10K and smaller units.

When I tested my installation using the generaor (the only power I have at my storage location) I noted that thet transfer switch had already selected the generator power before I could get from the generator start switch to the bay were the transfer switch is.  I'm guessing the transfer switch provides priority to generator power.  That guess and the generator power being the only power, I'm again guessing the transfer switch did not introduce any timer function.

Gil,

The transfer switch should have normal contacting to the shore power side and does no do any switching to the generator side until the delay circuit timer is satisfied. That tmer is usually 60 to 90 seconds to allow the generator to stabilize. The timer starts when AC voltage is sensed on the generator side. I'm thinking you were moving slower like I do today or time was flying while having fun..... You may want to check your transfer switch timing, it is possible that it is defective and switching too soon.

Later Ed